[Woodworkers] I'm done with the NFL

Thu Sep 28 08:00:24 PDT 2017

I can see Brian's point here, but I must question why the riots at
Berkeley and in Portland, Washington when a conservative speaker trys to
give a speech, but the protests shut them down.  What about free speech in
that case?  Do I agree that Trump should be making a big deal about this on
Twitter?  Nope, hell, I don't even twit on twitter!  But this freedom of
speech works both ways.  Can some speech get hateful?  You bet!  Just look
at what Westboro Baptist Church did at military funerals.  But that right
was reaffirmed by the Supreme Court.

I haven't watched any football yet this season.  Since the two teams I
follow really suck so far, there is a good chance I won't.  The NFL protest
during the playing of our national anthem just gives reason for my protest
to not watch the NFL..  Damn, I'm sure gonna miss those Super Bowl
commercials.

Vince Granacher

On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 17:14:43 +0100, Brian Johnson via Woodworkers
<woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org> wrote:
> Hey Dave -
> 
> So I'm going to play a bit of Devil's Advocate on this one.
> 
> As Americans we are given a set of innate rights. The first of which is 
> "Freedom of Speech". This freedom includes the right to protest, and 
> isn't limited to the poor, downtrodden, nor the rich and successful. 
> It's a right we all share. This includes NFL players making WAY, WAY too

> much money (on that we totally agree).
> 
> The NFL, as an organization, is also awarded this Freedom. If the NFL 
> were to start limiting the freedoms of it's players they would be 
> stomping on the rights that so many have fought and died to protect. 
> While I don't agree with what Kaepernick started, I don't have a problem

> with him protesting in his own way. It's his right. There is nothing in 
> the constitution that states we MUST stand and MUST place our hand on 
> our heart during the anthem or we will be forced to leave the country. 
> In fact, the right to NOT do so is protected under that first amendment.
> 
> When our President stepped up onto his podium (twitter) and directly 
> attacked the right to that protest, he was stepping outside the rights 
> of the office he was elected to. He has the privilege to represent the 
> United States and the Freedoms we all value, but he instead decided to 
> throw dirt on those Freedoms. While the entirety of the NFL (players, 
> staff, C-levels) likely don't agree with what Kaepernick was doing, they

> do agree that he has the right to protest in his way. The NFL decided to

> take a stand behind that Freedom. They aren't backing Kaepernick and 
> what he stood for. They are backing his RIGHT to do what he was doing. 
> They are showing a unified front against tyranny, the tyranny of our 
> President directly stating that Kaepernick shouldn't be allowed to do 
> what he was doing.
> 
> Kaepernick's actions are not dissimilar to the right to burn the flag. 
> That right has been upheld by the Supreme Court. Most of us don't agree 
> with it, but it's being done as an extreme measure to bring attention to

> something that somebody believes strongly in. In this case, Kaepernick 
> believes that African Americans are mistreated in the United States. Is 
> he right? Probably. Is his form of protest the way to go about it?
> 
> Consider this: We are all talking about it. He has forced an entire 
> nation, even the world, to have a conversation about something that 
> nobody was talking about previously. If 50,000 people from Harlem march 
> in protest, it's briefly mentioned on the news and we all move on. But 
> when a couple thousand rich folks link arms in solidarity? Funny how 
> there is suddenly tons of attention on the subject.
> 
> I, for one, applaud the NFL for not stomping on the rights of it's 
> players and giving them the opportunity to institute real change, to be 
> role models, to show that the voice of one person really can make a 
> difference. I come from a family of veterans. My Grandpa was in WWII, my

> Dad was in Germany during Korea, both his brother served in the military

> during (relative) peacetime, my brother was in the Air Force during 9/11

> and for years after, I was unlucky enough to not be able to serve. I 
> respect every single individual that makes the choice to put on that 
> uniform and make a stand for Freedom in the world. But, this is exactly 
> what they fight for every single day. The right to do what Kaepernick, 
> and subsequently the entirety of the NFL, have done.
> 
> That said, you also have the right to turn off the TV and make a stand 
> against the NFL. :)
> 
> -Brian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave Heitstuman via Woodworkers wrote:
>> First I am not a gotta watch it type of football fan. But I do pay
>> attention and when NASCAR is over I will watch the SeaChickens. If they
>> have the early game I generally will have the second game on. Although
I
>> am not allowed to watch with my wife as I have a tendency to yell at
the
>> TV.
>>
>> Kappernick started my disdain for the NFL when they said nothing. Then
>> Bennett started his little protest, which made me start thinking about
>> not watching the SeaChickens.
>>
>> This weekend the NFL takes a stand. Well guess what NFL. Take your
>> stand. I am too. There will be no football on any TV in our household.
I
>> hope your sponsors appreciate this.
>>
>> I have said for years that the players are paid way too much. If they
>> feel that they need to protest then take some of that money and start a
>> worthwhile endeavor to get your message out. Who knows maybe I’ll even
>> support it.
>>
>> In the meantime, when the national anthem starts, stand your ass up and
>> respect the flag.
>>
>> Better yet take a lesson from NASCAR, sure it is basically a bunch of
>> southern boys and hillbillies but guess what they stand with their hats
>> off and hands over their hearts during the singing. At the end the
>> cheer. Why? Because they are true Americans.
>>
>> At our local track the Canadians come down a couple of times a year.
The
>> Canadian national anthem is played first, we stand and respect their
>> flag. And they stand and respect our flag. Respect, that is what it is
>> about.
>>
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