[Woodworkers] I'm done with the NFL

[Clint Warren]

I think the NFL’s only motive is the only motive it has ever had, do absolutely nothing that would present a risk to the money flowing in.  Their current position is exactly what you’d expect from someone listening to PR people.

I won’t delve into Tim Tebow, but players are prohibited from doing lots of things. Can’t spike the ball after a catch on the 40 yard line. Can’t celebrate a great run by throwing the ball into the stands.  Not freedom issue. Can’t taunt an opposing player. Not free speech violation.  As a non-NFLer I’m sure there are many I don’t know about.

I didn’t bother to look up David Robinson’s charitable contributions, I’ll just assume there are many.  Did you bother to look up any of Kaepernick’s?  He’s been honored for his charity work.

How do you know EVERY one of those NASCAR teams stand proudly to support flag and anthem?  You don’t because they’ve been told they’ll be fired if they don’t.  You can’t say that the owners are patriotic because just like the NFL owners they are protecting the bottom line and their PR people know their audience.

I wonder who all of you want to be the final arbiter of what is American enough.  I think it would be better if when you looked to the right or left of you at a football game you knew the person was standing because they wanted to, not because they had to or they’d be ostracized.

I’m jaded enough to think this whole thing is a distraction from important things that are going on. Nobody gave a rat’s ass about Kaepernick a week ago.

With this message I’m done.

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From: Roy Shrove via Woodworkers<mailto:woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 12:04 PM
To: A place where woodworkers talk about woodworking<mailto:woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org>
Cc: Roy Shrove<mailto:rshrove at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Woodworkers] I'm done with the NFL

I only have one question/comment regarding your "Devil's Advocate"​ response. It appears that the NFL is more interested in playing politics than protecting "Free Speech"  The league is replete with examples of the NFL SQUASHING players free speech on innumerable occasions. Example - Players are prohibited from "Celebrating" in the End zone after a play,

Clearly their personal celebration, while probably ridiculous, in poor taste and self-aggrandizing, is clearly covered within the "protecting Free Speech" Rights. Why is this prohibited, but the NFL claims they support the "Free Speech" of their athletes. Why was Tim Tebow prohibited from taking a knee to pray (answer: it may offend someone).

They can't have it both ways.  ​If you read any of the background i​information on how/what started this whole debacle, it was a perceived discrimination issue and the disrespect to the flag was specifically mentioned as the reason for taking a knee. If they really give a damn, they should follow the lead of some truly great patriots and protectors of ethnic rights, like the NBA's Admiral - ​David Robinson -  who has lent his voice AND HIS MONEY towards supporting a myriad of special activities and groups, all in line with his personal beliefs and viewpoints, without EVER acting any way that could be construed as disrespectful to the country or the flag. I agree with​ith one posting that I saw. This is now way beyond any real, viable protest over anything - it is just the latest FAD for those who think their opinion counts.

Professional ​Football and Baseball are not welcome in my home while I support EVERY DAMN one of the NASCAR teams who proudly stand and support the flag and the National Anthem at every opportunity.

My 2 cents!

Roy


On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Brian Johnson via Woodworkers <woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org<mailto:woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org>> wrote:
Hey Dave -

So I'm going to play a bit of Devil's Advocate on this one.

As Americans we are given a set of innate rights. The first of which is "Freedom of Speech". This freedom includes the right to protest, and isn't limited to the poor, downtrodden, nor the rich and successful. It's a right we all share. This includes NFL players making WAY, WAY too much money (on that we totally agree).

The NFL, as an organization, is also awarded this Freedom. If the NFL were to start limiting the freedoms of it's players they would be stomping on the rights that so many have fought and died to protect. While I don't agree with what Kaepernick started, I don't have a problem with him protesting in his own way. It's his right. There is nothing in the constitution that states we MUST stand and MUST place our hand on our heart during the anthem or we will be forced to leave the country. In fact, the right to NOT do so is protected under that first amendment.

When our President stepped up onto his podium (twitter) and directly attacked the right to that protest, he was stepping outside the rights of the office he was elected to. He has the privilege to represent the United States and the Freedoms we all value, but he instead decided to throw dirt on those Freedoms. While the entirety of the NFL (players, staff, C-levels) likely don't agree with what Kaepernick was doing, they do agree that he has the right to protest in his way. The NFL decided to take a stand behind that Freedom. They aren't backing Kaepernick and what he stood for. They are backing his RIGHT to do what he was doing. They are showing a unified front against tyranny, the tyranny of our President directly stating that Kaepernick shouldn't be allowed to do what he was doing.

Kaepernick's actions are not dissimilar to the right to burn the flag. That right has been upheld by the Supreme Court. Most of us don't agree with it, but it's being done as an extreme measure to bring attention to something that somebody believes strongly in. In this case, Kaepernick believes that African Americans are mistreated in the United States. Is he right? Probably. Is his form of protest the way to go about it?

Consider this: We are all talking about it. He has forced an entire nation, even the world, to have a conversation about something that nobody was talking about previously. If 50,000 people from Harlem march in protest, it's briefly mentioned on the news and we all move on. But when a couple thousand rich folks link arms in solidarity? Funny how there is suddenly tons of attention on the subject.

I, for one, applaud the NFL for not stomping on the rights of it's players and giving them the opportunity to institute real change, to be role models, to show that the voice of one person really can make a difference. I come from a family of veterans. My Grandpa was in WWII, my Dad was in Germany during Korea, both his brother served in the military during (relative) peacetime, my brother was in the Air Force during 9/11 and for years after, I was unlucky enough to not be able to serve. I respect every single individual that makes the choice to put on that uniform and make a stand for Freedom in the world. But, this is exactly what they fight for every single day. The right to do what Kaepernick, and subsequently the entirety of the NFL, have done.

That said, you also have the right to turn off the TV and make a stand against the NFL. :)

-Brian






Dave Heitstuman via Woodworkers wrote:
First I am not a gotta watch it type of football fan. But I do pay
attention and when NASCAR is over I will watch the SeaChickens. If they
have the early game I generally will have the second game on. Although I
am not allowed to watch with my wife as I have a tendency to yell at the TV.

Kappernick started my disdain for the NFL when they said nothing. Then
Bennett started his little protest, which made me start thinking about
not watching the SeaChickens.

This weekend the NFL takes a stand. Well guess what NFL. Take your
stand. I am too. There will be no football on any TV in our household. I
hope your sponsors appreciate this.

I have said for years that the players are paid way too much. If they
feel that they need to protest then take some of that money and start a
worthwhile endeavor to get your message out. Who knows maybe I’ll even
support it.

In the meantime, when the national anthem starts, stand your ass up and
respect the flag.

Better yet take a lesson from NASCAR, sure it is basically a bunch of
southern boys and hillbillies but guess what they stand with their hats
off and hands over their hearts during the singing. At the end the
cheer. Why? Because they are true Americans.

At our local track the Canadians come down a couple of times a year. The
Canadian national anthem is played first, we stand and respect their
flag. And they stand and respect our flag. Respect, that is what it is
about.
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