[Woodworkers] OT: I'm done with the NFL

Mon Sep 25 11:58:07 PDT 2017

Count me in with Brian, Chuck & Clint. I, too, am a vet and had misgivings
when Kaepernick first took the knee. Trump's attacks have convinced me
Kaepernick was right.

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Chuck Steger via Woodworkers <
woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org> wrote:

> First of all this is definitely an off topic subject so I labeled as such.
> Secondly, how in the hell did we go this long w/o talking about Trump, yet
> the NFL is the trigger?
>
> Me personally, I am with Brian & Clint. I agree with most Americans that it
> is disrespectful to the flag and to the people who have much on the line
> protecting our freedom. Also, Colin K lost ALL credibility when he informed
> us he did not vote. You want change - then VOTE!!!! So do I agree with what
> they are doing - no. Do I agree that they have every right (as you and I
> do)
> to do a peaceful protest - you bet I do.
>
> As mentioned, there are ways we can show our disapproval, and not watching
> and supporting is certainly a way. But what the players are doing is well
> within their rights as Americans. But please notice, what Trump did was
> unite all sports - not just the NFL. Yesterday more players kneeled or
> locked arms in solidarity to the players because of Trump. Even Trump's
> buddy Kraft denounced Trump's position and LeBron called him a bum (just to
> name 2).
>
> Bottom line " I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to
> the death your right to say it" (Evelyn Beatrice Hall)
>
> Interesting note: The fans jeered the Patriots when they kneeled and locked
> arms but were sure cheering when they scored the winning touchdown (can you
> say "fickle").
>
> Chuck
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Woodworkers [mailto:woodworkers-bounces at lists.sawdusters.org]
> > On Behalf Of Brian Johnson via Woodworkers
> > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 11:15 AM
> > To: A place where woodworkers talk about woodworking
> > Cc: Brian Johnson
> > Subject: Re: [Woodworkers] I'm done with the NFL
> >
> > Hey Dave -
> >
> > So I'm going to play a bit of Devil's Advocate on this one.
> >
> > As Americans we are given a set of innate rights. The first of which is
> > "Freedom of Speech". This freedom includes the right to protest, and
> isn't
> > limited to the poor, downtrodden, nor the rich and successful.
> > It's a right we all share. This includes NFL players making WAY, WAY too
> much
> > money (on that we totally agree).
> >
> > The NFL, as an organization, is also awarded this Freedom. If the NFL
> were
> to
> > start limiting the freedoms of it's players they would be stomping on the
> > rights that so many have fought and died to protect.
> > While I don't agree with what Kaepernick started, I don't have a problem
> > with him protesting in his own way. It's his right. There is nothing in
> the
> > constitution that states we MUST stand and MUST place our hand on our
> > heart during the anthem or we will be forced to leave the country.
> > In fact, the right to NOT do so is protected under that first amendment.
> >
> > When our President stepped up onto his podium (twitter) and directly
> > attacked the right to that protest, he was stepping outside the rights of
> the
> > office he was elected to. He has the privilege to represent the United
> States
> > and the Freedoms we all value, but he instead decided to throw dirt on
> those
> > Freedoms. While the entirety of the NFL (players, staff, C-levels) likely
> don't
> > agree with what Kaepernick was doing, they do agree that he has the right
> to
> > protest in his way. The NFL decided to take a stand behind that Freedom.
> > They aren't backing Kaepernick and what he stood for. They are backing
> his
> > RIGHT to do what he was doing.
> > They are showing a unified front against tyranny, the tyranny of our
> > President directly stating that Kaepernick shouldn't be allowed to do
> what
> he
> > was doing.
> >
> > Kaepernick's actions are not dissimilar to the right to burn the flag.
> > That right has been upheld by the Supreme Court. Most of us don't agree
> > with it, but it's being done as an extreme measure to bring attention to
> > something that somebody believes strongly in. In this case, Kaepernick
> > believes that African Americans are mistreated in the United States. Is
> he
> > right? Probably. Is his form of protest the way to go about it?
> >
> > Consider this: We are all talking about it. He has forced an entire
> nation, even
> > the world, to have a conversation about something that nobody was talking
> > about previously. If 50,000 people from Harlem march in protest, it's
> briefly
> > mentioned on the news and we all move on. But when a couple thousand
> > rich folks link arms in solidarity? Funny how there is suddenly tons of
> > attention on the subject.
> >
> > I, for one, applaud the NFL for not stomping on the rights of it's
> players
> and
> > giving them the opportunity to institute real change, to be role models,
> to
> > show that the voice of one person really can make a difference. I come
> from
> > a family of veterans. My Grandpa was in WWII, my Dad was in Germany
> > during Korea, both his brother served in the military during (relative)
> > peacetime, my brother was in the Air Force during 9/11 and for years
> after, I
> > was unlucky enough to not be able to serve. I respect every single
> individual
> > that makes the choice to put on that uniform and make a stand for Freedom
> > in the world. But, this is exactly what they fight for every single day.
> The right
> > to do what Kaepernick, and subsequently the entirety of the NFL, have
> > done.
> >
> > That said, you also have the right to turn off the TV and make a stand
> against
> > the NFL. :)
> >
> > -Brian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Heitstuman via Woodworkers wrote:
> > > First I am not a gotta watch it type of football fan. But I do pay
> > > attention and when NASCAR is over I will watch the SeaChickens. If
> > > they have the early game I generally will have the second game on.
> > > Although I am not allowed to watch with my wife as I have a tendency to
> > yell at the TV.
> > >
> > > Kappernick started my disdain for the NFL when they said nothing. Then
> > > Bennett started his little protest, which made me start thinking about
> > > not watching the SeaChickens.
> > >
> > > This weekend the NFL takes a stand. Well guess what NFL. Take your
> > > stand. I am too. There will be no football on any TV in our household.
> > > I hope your sponsors appreciate this.
> > >
> > > I have said for years that the players are paid way too much. If they
> > > feel that they need to protest then take some of that money and start
> > > a worthwhile endeavor to get your message out. Who knows maybe I'll
> > > even support it.
> > >
> > > In the meantime, when the national anthem starts, stand your ass up
> > > and respect the flag.
> > >
> > > Better yet take a lesson from NASCAR, sure it is basically a bunch of
> > > southern boys and hillbillies but guess what they stand with their
> > > hats off and hands over their hearts during the singing. At the end
> > > the cheer. Why? Because they are true Americans.
> > >
> > > At our local track the Canadians come down a couple of times a year.
> > > The Canadian national anthem is played first, we stand and respect
> > > their flag. And they stand and respect our flag. Respect, that is what
> > > it is about.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > I want to be one of my friends for a day so I can see how cool it is to
> hang
> > out with me.
> > > Woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org
> > >
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> > >
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> > _______________________________________________
> > I want to be one of my friends for a day so I can see how cool it is to
> hang out
> > with me.
> > Woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org
> >
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> >
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> _______________________________________________
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> hang out with me.
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>
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