[Woodworkers] New Shop

Tue Sep 27 07:49:19 PDT 2016

The code is a bit ambiguous on the issue of conduit underground (it always has been if you ask me).  At one time the wording was pretty simple.  The trench had to be 18 inches deep except where the conduit could be driven over by vehicle traffic.  Then it had to be 24 inches deep.  Simple enough.  Then they started adding more descriptive verbiage that said something to the effect of "such as roadways"  They did not specify driveways so that made everyone seem to think it only had to be 18 under driveways.  Wrong!
I'm not doing this crap much anymore but I think the code now reads to the of the pipe, so now the trench is not 18" it is maybe 21" for 2" conduit.  I always figured I would head to the safe side and everything I ever buried I made 24"
In Washington State it has to be 24" to the top of the pipe under any area that can be driven over and in rocky soil it has to be imbedded in sand.
Any other areas need to be 18" to the top of pipe unless it is under concrete such as sidewalks (that can't be driven on) and building floors.  Then it reduces to 12 inches as I recall.

I'll make a call to an electrician I know that is licensed in Idaho and ask him his thoughts on GFCI's in a shop and how to get around it.
There is now an exception in the code that allows for non GFCI outlets in homes for vacuum cleaners because they were tripping them.  Maybe that exception can be used somehow.

Stay tuned

2Dave

From: Woodworkers [mailto:woodworkers-bounces at lists.sawdusters.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hales via Woodworkers
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 6:52 PM
To: woodworkers at sawdusters.org
Subject: Re: [Woodworkers] New Shop

Thanks 2Dave,

The contractor told me once I had the gas line passed (36" deep) to fill the trench up to 20" and lay the conduit, which I did. Then he told me to cover the trench as the electrician and the garage door guy would be there the next day and needed to get down the driveway. I asked if he was sure, since it hadn't been inspected and he said: "...On the electrical if you could just take some pictures with a tape measure in the hole showing the depth at 20" in a couple different spots that will be good for the inspector.  More than likely he won't even ask for that, but if he does you're covered."

So, the first thing El Inspector said when he showed up was "You covered the trench..." I said yeah, but I've got pictures, they told me that's all I'd need." "They lied to you." said he, and no, he didn't even want to see them. He let me by with digging some random inspection holes, but we had to re-schedule. grr. The last thing was he said today the trench was too shallow. The conduit needed to be 24" not 20". As far as I can tell from NEC, 18" is plenty good under a driveway, you only need 24" under a street. But the inspector has the last word as we all know, so we promised to put two more inches of road mix over the driveway later and he passed it.

I guess I'm on the right track with the circuit sizing, but I don't know what to do about the GFCI issue. It seems ALL "garage" outlets (which is what it appears to be) must have them, so I guess I'll just keep enough on hand to pass the exam. ;-)

I was hoping I could find someone locally who might be willing help me out with the specs and a plan that had a chance of being approved. Otherwise, I've got a really large storage shed.

On 9/26/2016 6:35 PM, Dave Heitstuman via Woodworkers wrote:

You buried the pipe before it was inspected didn't you :)  Tsk tsk

Gotta love inspectors.  I think the other Dave ran into some separation of line voltage and low voltage cables which was what Idaho was focusing on at that time.

Maybe he was trying to be helpful?

To the best of my knowledge the "electrical" inspector cannot dictate what tools get DC or anything else he quoted.  Unless Idaho has some new safety (aka OSHA) electrical inspector program.

I think at this point I would get all the wire ran with outlets installed and inspected before I moved a tool in there.  What can he say?  If the electrical passes it passes.  It is between you and your insurance company after that.

Now one hurdle you are going to encounter is all the new requirements for GFCI's and all the other safety crap.  Your motors on your power tools will trip them.  So somehow you have to get around that.

I was lucky.  When I built my shop I only needed GFI's.  I planned my outlet circuits out with the maximum number you can have off of the GFI outlet.  That way if I got caught I was going to change out the first outlet pass inspection and then take it back out.  The inspector was so enamored by the neatness of my work and everything I had going on he never even checked to see if I had GFI's.  All my stationary tools I ran off 220 which they didn't make GFI's for at that time.  Maybe they still don't?

2Dave

-----Original Message-----

From: Woodworkers [mailto:woodworkers-bounces at lists.sawdusters.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hales via Woodworkers

Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 5:11 PM

To: Woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org<mailto:Woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org>

Subject: [Woodworkers] New Shop

Well, after four years in our new home we finally got around to getting a shop building put up.

It's 20' X 28' slab-on-grade with  8' ceilings. Best we could do for the bucks.

I have natural gas and a 60-amp sub panel run to it from the house and (after some tribulations with the 'lectrical inspector over the trench being covered. Long story), we have passed inspections and are good to go.

Wondering if any of you all had suggestions as to wiring and heating options. I think I know how I want the layout to flow, with 20-amp circuits for the bigger tools and Cyclone, air compressor, etc. and 15-amp circuits for the lighting and general bench receptacles.

I'm leaning towards an overhead garage heater (Hot Dawg type) in about the 50,000 BTU range with external combustion air so's I don't suck all that dust into the burners and such. Any opinions or alternatives along these lines would be appreciated?

What I'm really up against is my nemesis the Inspector. He started citing all kinds of "Class 2, Class 3 Combustible, dusty environment..."

and other rigamarole, telling me I had to have dust collection hooked up to every damn tool I own. Finally, he left a note on the sub panel that we need a separate permit for the inside wiring (duh). I was going to do so, but this guy's going to have a bead on me every step of the way. Not very friendly to a home-owner do-it-your-self-er type like me, it seems.

I think I'm going to need a bullet-proof plan to submit for the permit, or else just do it and hope it doesn't creep back later and bite me.

Probably not a good idea...

I really want to do things right, but the budget says I need to do this myself. I can run wires and all that, I have a code-checker book (a little dated) and have run lots of Romex in my day, but getting the specs just right is a little daunting.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Mike Hales

Nampa, ID

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