[Woodworkers] Copper metal working

Sun Apr 18 19:56:37 PDT 2021

Not a lot of woodworking traffic so I thought I’d bore you with an update. But first, it really does take a village – this woodworking village has some great knowledge and is always there to help! Thank you all!!

I have 2 HSS round nosed scrapers with 2 distinct angles. They say 65 degrees is optimal but there are other angles for other applications. Mine are about 80 degrees and about 60 degrees. The 80 would have more steel behind it but the 60 should cut better. Interestingly enough, the 80 cuts the best so that’s what I’m using. I sharpen often and was taking time to create a burr (since it is a scraper) but I’ve ended up just sharpening and going back to turning and that seems to be working. I got it down to a cylinder (less than 7/8” but not at the desired ¾” yet). I wanted to see if I could turn it back to a sphere so I backed off the tail stock to round over the end and had a catch and the sphere went wobbly. I immediately turned off the lathe thinking the sphere was about to come off but after inspection, I found the rod had bent. Being a typical woodworker, I used what rod stock I had and in this case was rods from yard signs. I knew it wasn’t quality steel but had hoped it would work. It didn’t. So, tomorrow I’m off to the big box store to buy threaded #8 x 32 steel rods. For grins, I weighed the sphere which started at 3 oz. and is now 2.1 oz so just in what I’ve done I’ve shaved about an oz off the weight. I figure when I’m done should have it down to 1 ½ oz or less. This is great news for me as I thought the original was a little too heavy. I am making a prototype and have the box part done and most of the lid. My design has large curves in the lid which concerned me on how to make the curves. My first thought was coves on a TS but the curves were too big for even that. However, I sighted down the prospective cove path and knew I could get close. Sure enough, it came out pretty good (with some hand sanding involved)! It didn’t exactly match my drawn design but it is so close that I’m calling it good! The beauty of an original design is no one knows what it was supposed to be and it’s okay to call an auditable! Heck, I may end up doing that with the sphere. Of  course, now you all know so mums the word 😊.

Anyway, there’s a lot of learning going on and that’s a good thing. My last few projects had me doing new techniques which I love doing as I expand my skill set.

Thanks again!

Chuck

From: Steve Bigelow <sbig333 at gmail.com> 
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2021 6:37 PM
To: Chuck Steger <chuck.steger at gmail.com>
Cc: Sawdusters <woodworkers at sawdusters.org>; Richard Allen <rla_buy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Woodworkers] Copper metal working

Yes, that should be a positive rake, unless you're sharpening top and bottom. 

On Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 4:19 PM <chuck.steger at gmail.com <mailto:chuck.steger at gmail.com> > wrote:

Steve,

   Thanks. I have a round nosed HSS scraper. I sharpen it on a Wolverine system matching what I had when I bought it. That’s a positive edge, right?

Chuck

From: Steve Bigelow <sbig333 at gmail.com <mailto:sbig333 at gmail.com> > 
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2021 3:35 PM
To: Sawdusters <woodworkers at sawdusters.org <mailto:woodworkers at sawdusters.org> >
Cc: Chuck Steger <chuck.steger at gmail.com <mailto:chuck.steger at gmail.com> >; Richard Allen <rla_buy at yahoo.com <mailto:rla_buy at yahoo.com> >
Subject: Re: [Woodworkers] Copper metal working

The Easy Wood scraper is a negative edge scraper. I'm not an expert, but I've had better luck with a positive edge scraper and copper.

On Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 12:06 AM Richard Allen via Woodworkers <woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org <mailto:woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org> > wrote:

Hi Chuck,

Because drilling is done without being hand held (drill bit fixed in the tailstock) you can work at much slower speeds.  300 rpm would be my choice for drilling.  For turning with a hand held cutting tool I would turn as fast as the lathe felt stable.  An out of balance hunk of copper might not work at 3000 rpm.  But as the copper became more balance I would increase the speed.  Please keep in mind that with an increase in speed there is also and increase in danger.  If the “Danger Zone” is 4” wide at 300 rpm I would establish a danger zone of 12” wide at 3000 rpm.  This is to say that none of my body would enter that danger zone and my head would double that distance.  Tool forward with arms outstretched and my head either past the headstock or past the tailstock.  If I needed a better view it would be done with the lathe off.  BTW I use this “Danger Zone” approach to all my turning except for spindle work.

On Apr 16, 2021, at 8:17 PM, chuck.steger at gmail.com <mailto:chuck.steger at gmail.com>  wrote:

Richard,

   Thank you! What do you think of the drill speed? 3000? Also, if I turn faster 2000? 3000?

   Thank you for your help!!! Learning new things is exciting!

Chuck

From: Richard Allen <rla_buy at yahoo.com <mailto:rla_buy at yahoo.com> > 
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 6:42 PM
To: chuck.steger at gmail.com <mailto:chuck.steger at gmail.com> 
Cc: woodworkers at sawdusters.org <mailto:woodworkers at sawdusters.org> 
Subject: Re: [Woodworkers] Copper metal working

Hi Chuck,

I would turn much faster.  Though I would be concerned about high speed and the brittleness of a carbide cutting edge.  Metal work tends to be done at a slow speed.  Slow speed is also counter indicated with a hand held tool as a hand held tool tends to move in response to cutting.  Expect a lot of noise but the higher speed should help make the cuts very light and soon the thing will be running true.  Once the thing is running true you should be getting ribbons.  You want those ribbons to be small.  The goal is light cuts.  Sharp tools help a lot and dull fast.  I use HSS so I am not sure how a carbide tool would work or how long the cutting edge would remain sharp.

Safety!!!  Always stand to the side while turning.  If the “bullet” should “dismount” you want to see it fly by not fly into you.

On Apr 16, 2021, at 7:03 PM, chuck.steger at gmail.com <mailto:chuck.steger at gmail.com>  wrote:

Richard and all,

   Follow-up on the copper sphere:

   I drilled the sphere and did fine. But my first question is what is the proper drilling rpm for copper? Everything I’ve seen on the internet (9/64” drill bit) says 3000 rpm. That just seems fast to me. I ended up drilling at 1200 rpm and did fine (using 3-in-1 lubricant). But should I have used 3000? I will be doing more.

   I threaded the sphere and a steel rod and screwed the rod into the sphere. I mounted the sphere on the lathe and used the tail stock to start but will eventually have to back off the tail stock. I used an Easy Tool scraper and started to turn the sphere. It was a little wobbly as I’m sure I didn’t hit the exact center of the sphere. When I gently entered the cutter to the sphere I got small chips and a lot of noise (I’m sure because metal on metal and a little wobble). I stopped turning because a 3 oz ball of metal coming off the lathe makes me nervous and decided caution was the better part of valor so I could seek more advice. The lathe was turning around 1200 rpm. Faster, slower? What type of chips should be coming off? The DP created longer wisps of copper and I was hoping for the same at the lathe but probably not realistic. What did cut was very rough. Sound normal so far?

   I had safety glasses and a face shield on and I know wood coming off a lathe can do damage but when I think of this sphere all I can see is a big bullet ☹. 

   What do you think? Soldier on? 

Chuck

From: Richard Allen <rla_buy at yahoo.com <mailto:rla_buy at yahoo.com> > 
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:19 PM
To: woodworkers at sawdusters.org <mailto:woodworkers at sawdusters.org> 
Cc: chuck.steger at gmail.com <mailto:chuck.steger at gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: [Woodworkers] Copper metal working

I have turned copper on a wood lathe before.  I would take a 7/8” rod about 2” long an turn a sphere at one end.  The end being held by the lathe could be turned down to a suitable diameter so the sphere would be attached to the rod as a single piece of copper.  Another option would be to drill and tap the 1” sphere and thread some of your 3/8” rod to screw into the taped sphere.  Copper drills fine.  Plan on discarding the drill bit as sometimes the copper will “weld” to the drill bit.  I would do the drilling with the 1” sphere in a chuck on the lathe.  I would turn down the 1” sphere by mounting the 3/8” rod in a chuck on the lathe.  Copper turns with a scraper.  It is a fairly slow process but 10 minutes of scraper work and 15 minutes of sanding and polishing should give you a sphere shape to your likening

On Mar 30, 2021, at 5:02 PM, chuck.steger--- via Woodworkers <woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org <mailto:woodworkers at lists.sawdusters.org> > wrote:

Hope everyone is safe and healthy!

   I need some advice on working solid copper. I’ll give you some context on what I’m doing.

   I designing and building a Heritage Box for someone. Everything that goes into the design and construction will have some elements from their cultural background. Their mother and grandparents lived and worked in a copper mining town in Chile and copper was a big part of their lives. To bring copper into the design, I will attach the legs to the box using copper rods. Since the legs taper, I will use 1/8”, 3/16”, and ¼” rods and leave a ¼” gap between the legs and box. But this is subtle and I wanted to add something else. So I want to add a copper sphere at the top of the box. I drew up the design full scale and the sphere looks good at ¾”. So, I started researching copper spheres and what I found are jewelry spheres ½” and less or solid spheres 1” and greater. I ordered the 1” spheres which are actually used for plating copper.

   So here are some of my issues/questions/concerns:

*	Is there any way possible to reduce the diameter? I thought about some kind of holding contraption on a lathe and then using files but that just sounds like a bad idea.
*	The sphere weights in at 3 oz. Now that may seem light but it’s a little heftier that I wanted because I don’t want it to tip the box over when hinged open. The box footprint will be 8”x12” so it may be OK. I will build a prototype as I always do so I’ll find out. Also with a prototype it will be easy to see if 1” is too big. A ¾” hollow sphere would be perfect but I can’t find that.
*	Will solid copper drill OK? I would like to drill a hole for a rod to anchor the sphere to the box. I will epoxy the sphere to a cradle but a rod would be so much more secure IMO. And, given the weight, I would feel better.
*	Here’s another take …. Is there a way to cut the sphere in ½” I only have WW bandsaws so even with a metal blade, WW bandsaws run too fast, don’t they? The thought process here is maybe I take the two half spheres and attach them to the side of the box as an adornment. The design will be mostly Asian so spheres might look good. 

   So you can see the design is in total flux. I’ve started building the prototype out of pine.

Chuck

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