[Woodworkers] I'm done with the NFL

[Brian Johnson]

Hey Dave -

I'm going to try and avoid the politics (and likely fail), that's just a 
can of worms. We are now treading into territory where anything said 
will be taken as an attack. I don't mean to attack anybody's beliefs. 
They are your's, and you have every right to believe what you like. But, 
you do NOT have the right to force those beliefs on others.

The forcing of a people to perform a series of motions acting as 
"patriots" is called tyranny. Throwing somebody in jail because they 
don't stand during the anthem is what dictators do to instill fear in 
people. Rule by fear isn't what America is about. See: Communist China, 
North Korea, the former Soviet Union, the former Yugoslavian states...

It's funny how we remember what we want. In addition to learning about 
all the American patriotic motions, you also learned about protests. 
Rosa Parks anyone? She was protesting for the EXACT same thing 
Kaepernick started off protesting for, arguably in a more elegant way - 
but she was hand picked to make the protest and guided. I'm guessing you 
lived through MLK, who was also protesting for the same thing. Equality 
of minorities. More to the point, equality of all peoples, regardless of 
race, religion, views, beliefs, etc... Remember, this country was 
founded because of a protest.

To call them "crybabies" is disingenuous. Standing up for something 
better should be encouraged. What they were protesting for was at it's 
heart equality, and on the surface was taking a stance against the 
orange demon (Trump). Also, to imply that we all think the same as that 
little man in the big office is painting America with a VERY large 
brush. I don't, not even close. I chose to treat people with respect, 
and not imply that anybody should be handled by their genitals. I choose 
to respect the parents of fallen military men/women no matter what 
religion or race they are. I choose to rent my rental property to people 
no matter their color or beliefs. I also don't condone violence against 
anybody, even if they are a BLM protester. Yes, this is the man you 
think we all agree with. :/ I hope you're wrong.

Now, back to the anthem/pledge. I've never understood the love of the 
pledge. It's indoctrination. The pledge wasn't adopted until 1942. At a 
time when we were at war, and the US Government was trying to raise 
moral and encourage people to do what they could. I have nothing 
directly against it, but I do have a problem with forcing individuals to 
take part. America is about choice. Let people make that choice. Again, 
show me in the constitution where it says, "Pledge allegiance daily, 
stand during the anthem with hat off and hand on heart, or GTFO." It 
doesn't, for a damn good reason. The founding fathers had just fought a 
war to leave a country that indoctrinated it's people to the crown, 
forcing a class system. You can teach your kids respect for the flag and 
this country without forcing them to blindly follow.

Now that I have written all that I've realized that there are two things 
you'll never change a person's mind about: Politics and religion. :)

-Brian


Dave Heitstuman wrote:
> Brian, in context I might agree with some of your points , mainly I get the protest, I really do.  If the NFL players want to support other players that feel they have been wronged great.  Present it to me in such a way that I can choose to support the cause if I decide it is worthwhile.
> I purposely did not drag Trump into my rant.  Do I agree with his off the cuff comments?  In theory maybe but typically I do not agree with the delivery.   Rocket man cracks me up :)  it really does.  But it should not have been said out loud.
> The sooner people figure out that Trump does what most people would like to do the better off this country will be.  Face it he wears his emotion on his sleeve and he calls them like he sees them just like we would to a friend or coworker, just not the whole world.
>
> The issue is one of respect.  Maybe I do not recall what I was taught so many years ago about the flag, the pledge of allegiance and the national anthem.  But what I choose to remember is that we respect our flag and what it stands for.  I was taught you stand when the flag goes by in a parade.  I was taught that you stand for the pledge of allegiance and the playing of the national anthem.  Plain and simple.  I place my hand over my heart others do not.  That is their choice but at least they stand and remove their hats.
> The supreme court is a bunch of spineless sissies that don't want to offend anyone so they support the most vocal path.  I'd bet that if more of us red blooded Americans had protested the stance they took on the burning of the  flag it would have never passed, but too many do not say anything.  Freedom of speech or not, burn the flag, there should be consequences.
>
> The argument is getting old but, if it was not for that flag these overpaid crybabies could very possibly not be allowed to protest.  They would be told to play or not, or worse be thrown in a jail somewhere and forgotten.  They think they are being treated unfairly now?
>
> But more importantly let's take it one step further.  Professional athletes are role models.  A vast majority of children look up to these athletes.
> What happened at school today when the pledge of allegiance was read?  What is going to happen at an assembly when the national anthem is played.  And most importantly what is going to happen in 20 years?  That is what scares me.  If our children and grandchildren do not respect the flag and what it stands for, Rocket man just might win..................
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Johnson [mailto:serversage at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 9:15 AM
> To: A place where woodworkers talk about woodworking
> Cc: Dave Heitstuman
> Subject: Re: [Woodworkers] I'm done with the NFL
>
> Hey Dave -
>
> So I'm going to play a bit of Devil's Advocate on this one.
>
> As Americans we are given a set of innate rights. The first of which is "Freedom of Speech". This freedom includes the right to protest, and isn't limited to the poor, downtrodden, nor the rich and successful.
> It's a right we all share. This includes NFL players making WAY, WAY too much money (on that we totally agree).
>
> The NFL, as an organization, is also awarded this Freedom. If the NFL were to start limiting the freedoms of it's players they would be stomping on the rights that so many have fought and died to protect.
> While I don't agree with what Kaepernick started, I don't have a problem with him protesting in his own way. It's his right. There is nothing in the constitution that states we MUST stand and MUST place our hand on our heart during the anthem or we will be forced to leave the country.
> In fact, the right to NOT do so is protected under that first amendment.
>
> When our President stepped up onto his podium (twitter) and directly attacked the right to that protest, he was stepping outside the rights of the office he was elected to. He has the privilege to represent the United States and the Freedoms we all value, but he instead decided to throw dirt on those Freedoms. While the entirety of the NFL (players, staff, C-levels) likely don't agree with what Kaepernick was doing, they do agree that he has the right to protest in his way. The NFL decided to take a stand behind that Freedom. They aren't backing Kaepernick and what he stood for. They are backing his RIGHT to do what he was doing.
> They are showing a unified front against tyranny, the tyranny of our President directly stating that Kaepernick shouldn't be allowed to do what he was doing.
>
> Kaepernick's actions are not dissimilar to the right to burn the flag.
> That right has been upheld by the Supreme Court. Most of us don't agree with it, but it's being done as an extreme measure to bring attention to something that somebody believes strongly in. In this case, Kaepernick believes that African Americans are mistreated in the United States. Is he right? Probably. Is his form of protest the way to go about it?
>
> Consider this: We are all talking about it. He has forced an entire nation, even the world, to have a conversation about something that nobody was talking about previously. If 50,000 people from Harlem march in protest, it's briefly mentioned on the news and we all move on. But when a couple thousand rich folks link arms in solidarity? Funny how there is suddenly tons of attention on the subject.
>
> I, for one, applaud the NFL for not stomping on the rights of it's players and giving them the opportunity to institute real change, to be role models, to show that the voice of one person really can make a difference. I come from a family of veterans. My Grandpa was in WWII, my Dad was in Germany during Korea, both his brother served in the military during (relative) peacetime, my brother was in the Air Force during 9/11 and for years after, I was unlucky enough to not be able to serve. I respect every single individual that makes the choice to put on that uniform and make a stand for Freedom in the world. But, this is exactly what they fight for every single day. The right to do what Kaepernick, and subsequently the entirety of the NFL, have done.
>
> That said, you also have the right to turn off the TV and make a stand against the NFL. :)
>
> -Brian
>
>
>
>
>
> Dave Heitstuman via Woodworkers wrote:
>> First I am not a gotta watch it type of football fan. But I do pay
>> attention and when NASCAR is over I will watch the SeaChickens. If
>> they have the early game I generally will have the second game on.
>> Although I am not allowed to watch with my wife as I have a tendency to yell at the TV.
>>
>> Kappernick started my disdain for the NFL when they said nothing. Then
>> Bennett started his little protest, which made me start thinking about
>> not watching the SeaChickens.
>>
>> This weekend the NFL takes a stand. Well guess what NFL. Take your
>> stand. I am too. There will be no football on any TV in our household.
>> I hope your sponsors appreciate this.
>>
>> I have said for years that the players are paid way too much. If they
>> feel that they need to protest then take some of that money and start
>> a worthwhile endeavor to get your message out. Who knows maybe I'll
>> even support it.
>>
>> In the meantime, when the national anthem starts, stand your ass up
>> and respect the flag.
>>
>> Better yet take a lesson from NASCAR, sure it is basically a bunch of
>> southern boys and hillbillies but guess what they stand with their
>> hats off and hands over their hearts during the singing. At the end
>> the cheer. Why? Because they are true Americans.
>>
>> At our local track the Canadians come down a couple of times a year.
>> The Canadian national anthem is played first, we stand and respect
>> their flag. And they stand and respect our flag. Respect, that is what
>> it is about.
>>
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